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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:30 pm 
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Well I had someone else tell me you couldnt but maybe they were talking about post 1986 0_o......buy yea if your going to buy automatics or make "autos" then just get your class 3 and get it over with...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:34 pm 
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D_LaMz wrote:
Bigdaddy wrote:
Acutally I dont think you can make them full auto anymore even with certian liscenses and what not. You can buy them full auto yes but I am not to sure about making them legally...


you can make them fire auto legally. The DIAS, RR, LL must be serial numbered and be made before May 1986. Plus you got go get background checks etc.



yes, there are per-1986 full auto sears you can buy, its the same thing as buying a pre 1986 full auto gun, but yes NEW full autos can not be made legally because they will not approve any application to make one or buy it if its post 86.

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Well I had someone else tell me you couldnt but maybe they were talking about post 1986 0_o......buy yea if your going to buy automatics or make "autos" then just get your class 3 and get it over with...



you cant get a class 3 though, it is only for dealers, you have to have a dealers license already aswell as an actual store front and secure storage., and no simply getting a safe doesnt qualify as secure storage.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:55 pm 
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Bigdaddy wrote:
make "autos" then just get your class 3 and get it over with...


Making NFA firearms requires a Class 2 license, "dealing" in them requires Class 3.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:08 pm 
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Chaunsey wrote:
and no simply getting a safe doesnt qualify as secure storage.


How about a safe inside of a safe inside of a safe inside of a plane inside of an Imperial Star Cruiser?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:17 pm 
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ummm if you have your ffl...like you said a dealers thing you can get your class 3 my without a storefront. My friends dad who has many autos and at one time had a class 3 didnt have a storefront if he sold guns he did it from his home.....alot of other guys on the ar15 fourms do the same thing.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:22 pm 
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Whoa I didn't make this thread... Anyway. Let's get somethings out of the way.

Armalite, designed the rifle series. Under the name of AR-15 (Armalite 15) which was intended for military and law enforcement use, not a civilian rifle (although there are civilian versions I beleive). They made a carbine version of the AR-15, named the CAR-15 (Carbine Armalite 15). Now, the US decided to adopt this gun for their standard infantry rifle. But they bought it under a different licence name (they renamed it) and called it the M16. The success of the rifle led them to the adoption of the CAR-15 too, under the name M4. Why they rename them, I don't know so don't ask. Armalite let Colt (US army manufacturer) make the M16s and M4s so that Armalite can move on. Through production, Colt made some changes, so did Armalite. Both making new versions. So, the AR-15 and the M16 are the same rifle design, but are technically different due to tiny differences during production. The M16/M4 is the name only used by the US military. Every other country uses the AR/CAR-15.

The rifles are no different in terms of fire modes, barrel lengths, cyclic rate, gas system, etc.

Basically. An M16 is an AR-15 from the US. It's like champagne, it's only called champagne if it's from Champagne, France, if it's from anywhere else it's called sparkling wine (or something like that).

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:59 am 
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Bigdaddy wrote:
ummm if you have your ffl...like you said a dealers thing you can get your class 3 my without a storefront. My friends dad who has many autos and at one time had a class 3 didnt have a storefront if he sold guns he did it from his home.....alot of other guys on the ar15 fourms do the same thing.



you used to be able to do that, the ATF in "most" circumstance will not approve a license for home dealing.


it IS possible, but not likely, depends where you live too.


remember, in the past 20 years, the amount of gun dealers in the US has reduced 80%, even though sales are UP, this is because the ATF has been shutting down "kitchen counter" gun dealers in droves.

also, a class 3 license still doesnt give you full ability to own.

if you have a class 3 dealers license you can buy post-may dealers samples, which are cheaper then pre may(what everyone else is allowed to buy) but still very expensive.


a class 3 dealer still needs law enforcement permission to buy, for display/evaluation/promotion purposes new full autos.

basically to buy a new M16 a class 3 dealer still has to apply to the police for EACH gun, and the police have discretion in the matter.

so a more strict LEO is not likely to sign off on your new m16 unless its for use to sell to military or law enforcement.

again, to even get this license you need secure storage even though a store front is not explicitly required (it may as well be) you still need secure storage, which means alarms, safe/ vault.


another factor ot all of this is your local law enforcement, and city/ county board.

to be allowed to open a gun business, which is what you have to do to get a type 1 ffl, you have to get the chief law enforcement officer in your area to sign off on it, and it has to be within the local zoning laws.

your community could get you shut down if they dont like the idea.

the only thing that allows you free access to full autos is a full on manufacturers license for machine guns.

overall, getting a class 3 license, without having a real business, is next to impossible.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:18 am 
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Jehde wrote:
Whoa I didn't make this thread... Anyway. Let's get somethings out of the way.

Armalite, designed the rifle series. Under the name of AR-15 (Armalite 15) which was intended for military and law enforcement use, not a civilian rifle (although there are civilian versions I beleive). They made a carbine version of the AR-15, named the CAR-15 (Carbine Armalite 15). Now, the US decided to adopt this gun for their standard infantry rifle. But they bought it under a different licence name (they renamed it) and called it the M16. The success of the rifle led them to the adoption of the CAR-15 too, under the name M4. Why they rename them, I don't know so don't ask. Armalite let Colt (US army manufacturer) make the M16s and M4s so that Armalite can move on. Through production, Colt made some changes, so did Armalite. Both making new versions. So, the AR-15 and the M16 are the same rifle design, but are technically different due to tiny differences during production. The M16/M4 is the name only used by the US military. Every other country uses the AR/CAR-15.

The rifles are no different in terms of fire modes, barrel lengths, cyclic rate, gas system, etc.

Basically. An M16 is an AR-15 from the US. It's like champagne, it's only called champagne if it's from Champagne, France, if it's from anywhere else it's called sparkling wine (or something like that).

I'm a gun nut, I know my stuff. Thank you.



yes armalite owned the original design, it was designed by eugene stoner.

colt bought the rights to produce it.

the m4 carbine however, is NOT and never has been an armalite design, it was designed and produced completely by colt.


you are right that other countries do not use the m16 name, that is the US military nomenclature, just like the M1 garand, the M14, etc.

they do not use the ar-15/car-15 names however, these are civilian names for the pattern of rifle.

for example the canadian military calls it the C7.



however, you are still wrong to attach a specific design to the names AR-15, and m16, these are both GENERIC names.

in the military they have had the m16 A1, m16 a2, m16 a3 m16 a4 and many other configurations.

even those 4 designations are very generic, for example a soldier in one battalion could have an m16A4 that is in a different configuration from an m16A4 in another battalion.

there are thousands of possible configurations, not all of them have a specific name to them, and they are ALL either m16 or M4 pattern, if they are civilian they are reffered to as AR-15 or CAR-15.

none of these are exact specific names.


also CAR-15 stands for COLT ar-15, AR-15 being the armalite name, and then the colt added obviously due to colt production.

infact in 1964 the first US military m16's were ordered under the name CAR-15.


anyway, to recap, the name AR-15 is simply the original armalite name, it is technically the correct name for the m16 family of rifles.

CAR-15 although originally the name for colt ar-15, it has come to be thee civilian name for hte M4 carbine pattern, it is still correct and maybe even MORE correct, because the M4 configuration was designed by colt.


there is NO specific feature other then carbine or not, military or not, that differentiates these seperate names.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:43 am 
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Yeah, that all sounds right. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:42 pm 
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Suggestion:
Would using the catalogue number keep everyone happy and be in fitting with the "extensive armoury of weapons your private organisation has bought" theme?

i.e.
"Colt RO901 : Flat top, Safe/Semi/Full Auto" instead of "M16A4"?

Just a thought.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:20 pm 
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you know Chaunsey sometimes i swear you know to much about guns for your own good

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:30 pm 
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darkdragon wrote:
you know Chaunsey sometimes i swear you know to much about guns for your own good



:shock:



Not possible ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:33 pm 
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I think that the reply is just a little late, seeing as Chaunsey has not posted since early Fall.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:34 pm 
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Oh whoops. I accidentally necroposted. Apologies. :oops:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:09 am 
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DerMann wrote:
I think that the reply is just a little late, seeing as Chaunsey has not posted since early Fall.


makes you wonder if the FBI or something came knocking at his door :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:17 am 
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No he's fine I'll remind him about Alliance.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:13 am 
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Ah, what did happen to that guy? Bring him back. I enjoyed reading about his knowledge of guns on here.

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