The War
Headlines
Movies
Screenshots
Alliance Community
2011: We're Back!

Alliance: The Silent War

Community Forums for Alliance: The Silent War
It is currently Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:44 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:25 pm 
Offline
Lieutenant Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 11:22 pm
Posts: 1826
Location: Hayward, Cali
The MP-40 looks ass ugly. It looks like Hitler crapped it out.

_________________
Go pioneers!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:57 pm 
Offline
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:09 pm
Posts: 1312
Location: Texas
Cypher wrote:
HP wasn't forbidden during WWII, and Germany didn't use .45 since they had their entire industry going 9mm or 7.65mm. The Thompson is harder to control, 1) Higher Rate of Fire. 2) More powder. The Thompson and the MP40 both had their purposes. The Grease Gun was made in the similar fashion to the Thompson. 1) Costs. 2) Managabiltity. Thomspons were harder to use indoors due to the heaviness. The M3 not so much. It still used .45 but it was lighter, and due to lower RoF was easier to manage. More bullets accurately put in the air, means more kills then more lead in the air without accuracy. Doesn't matter if you put 30 rounds next to the guy. 10 rounds of 9mm in a guys chest is enough to put a man down. This is just my opinion though. Not trying to start a flame war though.

PS: First day on the forum. Nice to meet you guys. This being my second post.


Welcome to the forums, sorry I didn't say it earlier.

I personally have fired Thompson M1A1 in full automatic. There is nothing hard about them to control. At the time, I was like 13 and it was still easy to use and accurate.

Weight doesn't affect CQB performance. The length is the only real hinderence. It's very long for an SMG. However, the weight and length both work together to make it both controllable and accurate.

_________________
Image
Head of Zombie Suit Manufacturing, Supplying Guns to the Mentally Stable, Lead Researcher for Weapons, Grand Requisitioner, and Master Keeper of the NZG Armoury.
Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:00 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:13 pm
Posts: 196
DerMann wrote:
the failed Thompson replacements like the Grease gun


Which is why they produced some 600,000+ of them, and then continued to use them in Korea, Vietnam, and even in Desert Storm; until finally retiring them from inventory in 1994.

And why the Phillipine Marine Corps choose modernized M3A1 over any number of other surplus and new manufacture SMGs they could've purchased.

The Grease gun failed to replace the Thompson? Pfft. Compaired to the exploits of the Grease gun, the Thompson didn't measure up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:13 pm 
Offline
2nd Lieutenant
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 2:54 pm
Posts: 592
the Grease gun is just way easyer and way cheaper to make then the thompson

_________________
Image
Image
Image
Sox's assistant and the number one grunt of the NZG
don't mess with a nation that needs medication


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:26 pm 
Offline
Master Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:02 pm
Posts: 301
darkdragon wrote:
Cypher wrote:
HP wasn't forbidden during WWII, and Germany didn't use .45 since they had their entire industry going 9mm or 7.65mm. The Thompson is harder to control, 1) Higher Rate of Fire. 2) More powder. The Thompson and the MP40 both had their purposes. The Grease Gun was made in the similar fashion to the Thompson. 1) Costs. 2) Managabiltity. Thomspons were harder to use indoors due to the heaviness. The M3 not so much. It still used .45 but it was lighter, and due to lower RoF was easier to manage. More bullets accurately put in the air, means more kills then more lead in the air without accuracy. Doesn't matter if you put 30 rounds next to the guy. 10 rounds of 9mm in a guys chest is enough to put a man down. This is just my opinion though. Not trying to start a flame war though.

PS: First day on the forum. Nice to meet you guys. This being my second post.
isn't the traing for the 9mm 2 in the chest 1 in the head when the good old .45 is one in the chest and your done i like the one shot one kill method of warfare


I believe double tapping is to maximise your chances of hitting something vital (i.e. an artery, a vital organ, the CNS). One in the head = Execution stylee to make sure they are dead (there's a difference between dead and not moving) OR after short pause to see if they're still coming (i.e. if they are off their tits on PCP).

In my utterly non-expert opinion, I think you expect far too much of .45 when you say "One shot, one kill". It's still a pistol bullet, after all and comparitively light, slow and from a short barrel.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:32 pm 
Offline
2nd Lieutenant
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 2:54 pm
Posts: 592
the 45 was made for stoping power the 9mm was made to be light weight atleast from my understanding i'm even less an expert then you

_________________
Image
Image
Image
Sox's assistant and the number one grunt of the NZG
don't mess with a nation that needs medication


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:49 pm 
Offline
Master Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:02 pm
Posts: 301
Fascinating read about the mechanics of shooting people :

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:29 pm 
Offline
Sergeant First Class

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:06 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Boston, Ma
spm1138 wrote:
Fascinating read about the mechanics of shooting people :

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm


creepy, not you, just the fact that there exists such documents.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:31 pm 
Offline
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:09 pm
Posts: 1312
Location: Texas
Sturmwehr wrote:
DerMann wrote:
the failed Thompson replacements like the Grease gun


Which is why they produced some 600,000+ of them, and then continued to use them in Korea, Vietnam, and even in Desert Storm; until finally retiring them from inventory in 1994.

And why the Phillipine Marine Corps choose modernized M3A1 over any number of other surplus and new manufacture SMGs they could've purchased.

The Grease gun failed to replace the Thompson? Pfft. Compaired to the exploits of the Grease gun, the Thompson didn't measure up.


I'm sorry, not quite sure why I put Greaser under that category. The UND gun that had double mags and was ridiculous looking would be a much better example.

_________________
Image
Head of Zombie Suit Manufacturing, Supplying Guns to the Mentally Stable, Lead Researcher for Weapons, Grand Requisitioner, and Master Keeper of the NZG Armoury.
Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:44 pm 
Offline
2nd Lieutenant
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 2:54 pm
Posts: 592
pain is not reliable i know that because it's never stoped me lol and didn't that just say the 45 is better :roll: atleast if it will penetrate deep enough

_________________
Image
Image
Image
Sox's assistant and the number one grunt of the NZG
don't mess with a nation that needs medication


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:46 pm 
Offline
Private

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:37 pm
Posts: 6
Thing is my original point was a bullet is a bullet. They ALL kill. It's about shot placement. A 20mm just does more damage then a .45. The way people are talking why don't we use 20mm in Battle Rifles? Because that's impractical. A 20mm Vulcan Bolted into a Concrete bunker defending a position, yes. That might be practical. But a 20mm Battle Rifle isn't. 9mm is lighter then .45 and the killing power isn't that much different. Men die from 9mm to the head, (unless they are on PCP or something). People die from 9mm to the chest... people die from .45 to the head... man survives 3 .45s to the chest. How? Shot placement. A bullet passing through a body without hitting ANYTHING vital does nothing except cause pain and bleeding (which might kill might not. Now adays it most likely wont.) Take for example a 8mm Mauser going through the leg of an indivdual, and 8mm Mauser's are powerful rounds. They can cause some reverb in the chest of the shooter. A .22 rimfire, a very "weak" round going through the brain. Oh my! Man is dead! Thing is it doesn't matter the power of the bullet as say the placement of a shot. We went from .30-06 to .223 for a reason. The M56 Ball .223 round does just as much damage if not more then the .30-06 for half the weight. 30 rounds in an M16 vs. a heavier and just as full M1 Garand with only 8 .30-06 rounds.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:31 pm 
Offline
Lieutenant Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 11:22 pm
Posts: 1826
Location: Hayward, Cali
I like the Thompson beter. It's more sleak.

_________________
Go pioneers!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:41 pm 
Offline
2nd Lieutenant
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 2:54 pm
Posts: 592
if you pride shot placement maybe you should go with the biger rifle round wich is more accurate and more deadly at range and also a bolt action over semi or full auto to to accuraties

the thomson for those who pride puting more lead in the air to make sure the people your shooting at die and die fast the thomson clearly does that better bigger bullets fired at a faster rate

you can say whats the point of puting that much ammo down range if your not going to be able to hit anything with it but isn't that what full auto weapsons are made for fire rate not accuraty

_________________
Image
Image
Image
Sox's assistant and the number one grunt of the NZG
don't mess with a nation that needs medication


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:21 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:38 pm
Posts: 192
id have to go for the chicago typewriter (thompson) because it could put out a higher rate of fire and a fairly powerful round, but can also burst fairly well. i also think it looks better, and i know it has a larger variety of magazines, from 20 round to i think 70 rounds. its american (read as awesome) and so it was well made. however, eventually, the mp-40 really won out (even though germany lost) because thompsons slowed down in production in favor of grease guns, because they were expensive and getting outdated. if u look at modern machine guns, they are far more influenced by the mass-produced, bare bones mp-40 then the tommy gun.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:03 pm 
Offline
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:09 pm
Posts: 1312
Location: Texas
I would say that the Thompson was, and still is, technologically advanced. Perhaps if you were to change the building materials and the mode of manufacture, it would be up to par with the Heckler and Koch line of SMGs. Most SMGs that the US military uses are used in specialized roles, so they don't really need to be mass produced.

_________________
Image
Head of Zombie Suit Manufacturing, Supplying Guns to the Mentally Stable, Lead Researcher for Weapons, Grand Requisitioner, and Master Keeper of the NZG Armoury.
Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:12 pm 
Offline
Master Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:02 pm
Posts: 301
DerMann wrote:
I would say that the Thompson was, and still is, technologically advanced. Perhaps if you were to change the building materials and the mode of manufacture, it would be up to par with the Heckler and Koch line of SMGs. Most SMGs that the US military uses are used in specialized roles, so they don't really need to be mass produced.


Umh... isn't the Thompson open-bolt?

I thought the MP5 was favoured for it's accuracy (closed-bolt, delayed blowback) as much as anything else?

Would a CT team that had the choice really switch to a weapon that had parts moving in it before the bullet left the barrel or one that had less controllable recoil?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:52 pm 
Offline
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:59 pm
Posts: 1027
Location: Houston, TX
I think that the early versions were open bolt, but when the Army made them into the m1a1, they modified it to use a closed bolt.

_________________
Image
"Dream a little bit
This is the kush to your lighter"

The NZG Specialist, Stick Wielder, Shotgun Extraordinaire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:10 pm 
Offline
2nd Lieutenant
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 2:54 pm
Posts: 592
well you know cheaper is better it's quantity over quality

_________________
Image
Image
Image
Sox's assistant and the number one grunt of the NZG
don't mess with a nation that needs medication


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:42 pm 
Offline
Master Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:02 pm
Posts: 301
Spiffinz wrote:
I think that the early versions were open bolt, but when the Army made them into the m1a1, they modified it to use a closed bolt.


Wiki says the M1 had a "modified" bolt but used a standard blowback action. World.guns.ru says "All thompsons are open bolt".

Admitedly, both of those sources are utter crap but my books are all in the attic at home.

Sounds about right though.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:27 pm 
Offline
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:59 pm
Posts: 1027
Location: Houston, TX
Yeh, worldguns.ru is an ok site for some basic info about weapons, but from what Ive heard there are rampant technical falacies.

_________________
Image
"Dream a little bit
This is the kush to your lighter"

The NZG Specialist, Stick Wielder, Shotgun Extraordinaire


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group